2012-11-28
2012-12-06
x clinton

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are transforming the global economy." he was in atense for the fall for the book festival held annually at the university. it's about a half an hour. >>> now joining us here at george maison university is professor philip auerswald. the most recent book is "the coming prosperity: how entrepreneurs are transforming the global economy". here's the cover of the book. professor, what role does -- play in economic development? >> well, that's a great question, and maybe i'll talk about what role does fear play in our conversation about. the conversation about the present. when we talk about our reality and share our idea in a marketplace, we're competing with other ideas. we know three things about marketplaces for ideas. short term sells better than long-term, fear sells better than hope, negative sells better than positive, and exaggerated sells better than moderated. so we see a disproportionate number of short term narrative of negative, exaggerated stories essentially. so short term negative exaggerated. that is overrepresented in the marketplace of ideas. there's good reason for that.

? and what are the consequences for the economy if there isn't one? we'll ask the president's lead budget negotiator, treasury secretary tim geithner. >>> then the view from capitol hill. are democrats as divided over cutting medicare as republicans are over tax increases? with us, two voices calling for compromise. republican senator bob corker of tennessee and democratic senator claire mccaskill of missouri. >>> finally, our special economic roundtable. as both sides battle over the nation's fiscal health, what can we expect from the economy in a second obama term? what is the vision for an economic rebound? >>> from nbc news in washington, the world's longest-running television program, this is "meet the press" with david gregory. >>> and good sunday morning. amidst a lot of partisan rhetoric on both sides, talks on the fiscal cliff are now at a stand still, and the president is back on the campaign trail of sorts. this time to try to win in a court of public opinion for his plan to avert an automatic tax hike for everyone on january 1. that's where we'll start this morning with the po

is for the president if the economy slips into a recession. we are talking about 2013 having no growth. >> it would be horrible. >> yeah. so it's a little hard to see what the game is. as kim was mentioning, the president wants these tax increases. it seems to me we will go through this sort of scorpion dance the rest of the year. what did the president campaign on? what was the one thing i think most people would say that he campaigned on? that was raising tax rates on the wealthiest, the two top rates. that's the thing that i think is on the table. and the -- >> but the republicans put that on the table. >> the republicans have put that on the table. >> at least through deductions. debate the rates or deductions. but they are willing to put it on the table. the question is what do the president give the republicans in return, if anything? >> i think that's what the republican position should be. say we have committed to what you campaigned on. if you are not willing to talk about reducing spending, then we aren't going to be able to do a deal with you, and i think that puts the political onus to

. >> by growing the economy. just a couple numbers. already in this meager economic recovery, we've increased revenue to the federal government by $344 billion. if we just return to a normal economy, like we had in 2007, under president bush, where proven was 18.5% of our economy, that would raise another $400 billion per year. the president's proposal right now, the highest estimated is $75 billion, a tenth of that. economic growth is 10 finals more effective at raising revenue. the problem with punishing success, the problem with the president's proposal, it will put that economic growth at risk. you know, i think the best question really is, what is the president's plan? show us your plan. this is about returning confidence to the economy. >> greta: a plan to rev up the economy or a plan for spending cuts? >> a plan for reducing the deficit which actually would return certainty to the economy, restore confidence, which would help economic growth. punishing success will not do that. temporary tax increases don't do that as well. >> greta: it's interesting, almost seems like a game of chicke

the economy has to be good and she has to decide that it the national mood is going to be such in 2016 that the country is going to want to stick with a democrat. >> michael tomasky, good to have you with us. that "the ed show." and tomorrow night nancy pelosi will join me to talk about the fiscal cliff. "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. >> good evening, ed. thank you. thanks to you at home for staying with us. if you get a tweet from president obama, you will know it by his signature. the president has an official twitter account from which all sorts of on message things get tweeted. but the white house says you know when a tweet has been written by the president himself because in that case the tweet gets a little initial signature. a "bo" in lower case. barack obama, as in i the president wrote this tweet. if it was a dog, it would be the paw print. the president was writing his own tweet this is afternoon. the string of twitter messages about the budget negotiations in washington. the white house announcing in advance today that the president himself wou

economy and will her job creation in our country. republicans are committed to continuing to work with the president to come to an agreement to avert the so-called fiscal clef. one reason why we believe that we put revenue on the table as long as it is accompanied by serious spending cuts to avert a crisis. we believe this is the president's request for a balanced approach to this issue, and we are going to continue to work with the president to try to resolve this in a way that is fair for the american people. we all now that we have had the spending crisis coming at us like a freight train. it has to be dealt with. in order to try to come to an agreement, republicans are willing to put revenue on the table. it is time for the president and democrats to get serious about the spending problem our country has. i am optimistic. we can continue to work together to avert this crisis, sooner rather than later. >> good morning. last week, the president's chief political adviser indicated that medicare and medicaid are the main drivers of our deficit. i know we have seen this morning als

different elements of our economy deal with d.h.s. with support of others coming up with what would be best business practices and then if those best business practices were adopted by those within that element of the economy, they would get liability protection, liability immunity. now, some say, wait a second. that leads to a slippery slope that the government will come in and crash in on you. i don't know the perfect answer but i can trying for the lightest regulatory approach we could have. and those worried about the federal government coming in heavy-handed are truly concerned about that, they ought to think about this. if we have a successful cyberattack against a part of our critical infrastructure, my fear is that congress and whoever's present at the time will overreact because the public will require it. wouldn't it be better for us to anticipate it? wouldn't it be better for us to get ahead of the crises and then have a means by which we defend against it? we know we're not ever going to be totally 100% successful. so when it happens to diminish the impact on whatever critical i

>>> tonight, battleground america. the looming fiscal cliff and the fight to save the economy. in his first interview since the big romney loss, i will ask reince priebus if his party is out of touch with the country. plus his plans to fix the gop. >>> plus president obama's tax push. he wants the rich to pay up but is it fair? >>> and one of the most influential spiritual leaders in the world, america's pastor, rick warren. he was there at barack obama's first inauguration. will he be there again? we're talking politics, same sex marriage and the "two and a half men" star whose christian conversion has him attacking his own show. this is "piers morgan tonight." >>> good evening. our big story tonight, countdown to financial doomsday, the fiscal cliff and the clock is ticking. 35 days left before this massive sweeping tax hike. america's now at the mercy of washington, hoping that both sides can end the fighting and make a deal. anti-tax champion grover norquist last night told me he's keeping republicans to the no tax increase pledge they made decades ago. but should his part

revive the american economy if people are expected to take, they've already had 25% pay cut in six years. that's not the american dream and that's not the way you make an economy work. they're way and you have whack. >> you raised the issue of germany. many point to it's robust economy and manufacturing sector who would resist here worker representationen oh the board of directors. how has the actual representation impacted labor strife over in europe, for example? >> you know, there is some strife, but i think there is also more of a sense that we're all in this together. as you point out i mentioned germany, but it's, you know, france all the way through the nordic countries. the other thing that's key is in a newly emerging democracy like brazil the workers through collective bargaining is four to five times the level of the united states. you have rising wages millions of brazilian workers coming into middle income status, able to buy the things they produce and a growing economy in brazil. here, the micro system of each employer trying to maximize profits at the expense of employees

referred to things that will help make the economy stronger in the short-term and let me explain why we proposed that. what we are suggesting is that we work to rebuild the country's infrastructure, rather than putting it off, doesn't say just to put it off and extend unemployment insurance benefits and help make it easier for americans to refinance mortgages and, tax incentives for business investment and proposed how to do that in a fiscally responsible way we can afford to pay for and matched those proposals, with spending savings that, together as part of the plan, get us down to the point where we stabilize our debt and that is the critical test. >> chris: let me drill down into the spending part of the equation, here they're increases, spending increase as you are proposing. $150 billion, in stimulus, public works projects over several years. a $30 billion extension of unemployment insurance, for one year. extension of payroll tax cuts, mortgage relief, deferral, of automatic cuts for doctors and medicare. here are the spending cuts. unspecified savings from nonentitlement program

. we have to put entitlements on the table? >> for the sake of the over all economy we must put enments on the table. over the last four years entitlement spending is growing faster than the over all economy. this is why president obama has this country in record debt. that hurt the economy. take-home pay decreased under president obama. we must get entitlements under control. >> rick at the unemployment and housing vouchers. it is 800 billion extra spending. doesn't that have to be cut. >> there is no chance that there will be a dole without entitlement cuts. what senator durbin is talking about is the importance of focusing. if we want a deal you will not doing by taking a wide sprect rum approach. president clinton was clear when he spoke to the republicans. he pointed out that the biggest driver of the united states debt is medicare. he understands that we have to face up to the medicare problem. we need a solution. >> the conference that rick was referring tompt he said folks, i won and i get to make the decision and he grew the budget by 800 billion every year. one-time stimulus h

-breaking corporate profits show the economy is well on the road to recovery. what does it mean for workers? i'll give you some numbers and sam stein will be along with the conversation. >>> and world leaders say farewell to hillary clinton with a ringing endorsement. you'll want to see this video. michael tomasky on whether hillary clinton will make a run for the white house. share your thoughts on facebook and on twitter. we're coming right back. >>> welcome back to "the ed show." thanks for watching tonight. republicans are doing a lot of maneuvering on the fiscal cliff. president obama and the democrats have put forward a plan relying mostly on raising more revenue from the wealthiest 2% of the country. republicans rely mostly on cuts affecting the middle class and the poor and republicans aren't specific about how they get $800 billion in revenue. for the conversation, let's turn to richard wolffe, msnbc political analyst and vice president and executive director of msnbc.com. and molly ball, political reporter for "the atlantic." the republican proposal includes ryan's voucher program for medica

on us all. now through january 2nd. >>> record-breaking corporate profits show the economy is well on the road to recovery. what does it mean for workers? i'll give you some numbers and sam stein will be along with the conversation. >>> and world leaders say farewell to hillary clinton with a ringing endorsement. you'll want to see this video. michael tomasky on whether hillary clinton will make a run for the white house in 2016. share your thoughts on facebook and on twitter. we're coming right back. from easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl. i have obligations. cute tobligations, but obligations.g. i need to rethink the core of my portfolio. what i really need is sleep. introducing the ishares core, building blocks for the heart of your portfolio. find out why 9 out of 10 large professional investors choose ishares for their etfs. ishares by blackrock. call 1-800-ishares for a prospectus which includes investment objectives, risks, charges and expenses. read and consider it carefully before investing. risk includes possible loss of principal. >>> welcome back to "the ed show." thank

the waiting game to see if country and the president take the economy off the fiscal cliff, president obama says he will not play the debt ceiling game again. but he is taking a few more shots in the public relations game. turning the screws on republicans, a little bit more. chief white house correspondent ed henry starts us off tonight. >> reporter: finally the blame for stalled budget talks on republicans, president ratcheted up the lesh on john boehner. >> no one wants to have this done more than me. >> reporter: telling agencies to watch for massive spending cuts from going over the fiscal cliff and warped the business exectives the economy could take another hit if the republicans decide to extend the middle class tax cut to avoid the cliff for now. then come back with more leverage. to tie it to a hike in the debt ceiling. >> we are 23409 going play that game next year. if congress in any way suggests that they are going to tie negotiations to debt ceiling votes, take us to brink of default again, i will not play that game. >> republicans held their own meeting with small business ow

the economy go into a recession. i do not believe he'll do that. i'm call his bluff. he will have to make a deal with republicans because, yes, they will blame the republicans for the recession. i know that's what you're going to say. you know what there will be truth but it's obama who gets blamed for having another recession in his second term. it will be herbert hoover obama. he has ta deal. steve, i'm calling your bluff on this whole thing. >> i'm for him for making a deal and i think he will. the republicans could pass a bill tomorrow to extend the bush tax cuts for everybody making less than 250 and then we could have a discussion about the people making over 250 from now to the end of the year but we could ensure people making under 250 don't see their paychecks, $2,000 taken out of it on january 15th and january 30th. >> why should they do that? >> why can't they protect the middle class. the president says look i have them in my budget. i went through his budget. 258 proposals on taxes or spending. 15 on medicare. total of 150 billion in cuts. we spend $7 trillion in the next ten

and it actually doesn't make sense for the economy overall because middle income families drive the economy more than 80% of the economic activity of consumer spending is generated from people making less than 150, not 250. so we need to have middle income families have that security and then we can talk about the top 2%. >> the president is sitting down, as we speak, with six governors from both sides of the aisle. >> right. >> we're getting first pictures in of that meeting. as we wait to hear what comes from this, is it time for the president to make speaker boehner an offer that he just can't refuse, one that both sides are going to look at as serious? what harry reid is saying a what the gop came back is a nonstarter. john boehner said over the weekend we are nowhere on this. it's a nonstarter plan and i'll raise you with a nonstarter plan? >> i do think that at this stage sometimes the coverage of the back and forth doesn't really indicate to americans what's really happening. there's going to be a the lo of back and forth. i think it's still relatively early because you have two proposals

over the last four years, there is progress in some key sectors of our economy. we've seen housing finally begin to bounce back for the first time, and that obviously has an enormous ripple affect throughout the economy. consumer confidence is as high as it's been. many of you over the last two, three years have experienced record profits or near record profits and have a lot of money where you're prepared to invest in plants, and equipment, and hire folks. obviously globally the economy is still soft. europe is going to be in the doldrums for quite some time. asia is not charging forward and some of the emerging markets are not charging forward as quickly as they were maybe a few years ago. but i think what all of you recognize and many of you have told me is that everybody is looking to america, because they understand that if we're able to put forward a long-term agenda for growth and prosperity that is broad based here in the united states, that confidence will not just increase here in the united states, it will increase globe balance leave. globally and i think we can get the

the economic brake and let this economy continue to build. it seems a little disorienting and ale disconcerting to hear that there may be some people in this congress who put their pledge to a special interest ahead of their pledge of allegiance to this country. and while we are beginning to see some cracks in that cement block that is the special interest group that has gotten these republican members to sign these no-tax pledges, there are not that many. you hear a high ranking republican in the house talking about telling his colleagues to join with president obama to move forward in preserving the tax rates for the middle-class. as the chairman just said, for everyone, including warren buffett, ross perot -- they would get tax relief for the first $250,000 of their income as well. you hear some republicans calling this pledge handcuffs that keep them from moving forward. we would hope in the short periodically have before december 31, we would not let a pledge to a special interest supersede the pledge of allegiance to make to our country. finally, once again, the american people are way ah

market. it is just going to affect the economy the same as gas prices or food prices going up on the poor and middle class. life will go on. just like life has gone on for the rest of the united states of america. but right now, i think the state of politics is very sad because they're seen -- there seems to be more of a game to be played and positions, one party having the upper hand over the other. not much is going to get done. and you have too many extremes on each side to make things a lot more difficult to run. and it makes it difficult on the president as well. i'm optimistic that the president got reelected, but pessimistic on anything really changing. have leased, anytime soon. -- at least, any time soon. host: and talking about actual change, if there will be a difference on january 1st or otherwise, in terms of taxes, politics, the fiscal cliff, john mckinnon, are any of these expiring? as part of our fiscal cliff series, we're looking at the bush tax cuts that are set to expire unless congress acts, and we are looking at spending cuts. our deductions on the chopping block unle

forward, helping us revive this economy. we don't want to set them back. and so why not do what the senate did several months ago in passing a bill bipartisanly that protects the middle class from seeing their taxes raised? we only need a few dozen republicans, quite honestly, to get that done because we're about to sign a discharge petition that we are going to declare as democrats that we are ready to plass the middle class tax protection act which will make sure that middle-class families do not watch their taxes go up simply because republicans are intent on protecting millionaires and billionaires and are holding middle-class families hostage to that increasing tax. we believe we can end december, certainly before the holidays on a really good note, maybe still having some disagreement but at least let's agree that we're not going to let the american people watch congress play this game of chicken right before the holidays where the american people are the hostages when we know that we have bipartisan agreement on protecting the middle class. and so we are thrilled that mr. walz has t

, than in january with the world economy in turmoil and second recession coming. number two, john boehner, the speaker is claiming he's met obama's demand for higher taxes for the rich. that's good. he agreed in principle the rich must pay more. number three, there's talk for the republican leaders that they could vote to continue the tax cuts for the 98% now and therefore avoid the fiscal cliff and put off for now the top 2%. and the question then, let the debt ceiling not take effect. a tax cut delayed i argue is a tax cut avoided. joining me with the republican defense highly tauted fan of the eagles, ed rendell and alex wagner of msnbc's "now." governor, i want you to read what's going on here. first speaker boehner defended the gop's tax proposal saying it does take a bite out of the rich but president obama held firm to tax rate hike on the wealthiest. let's listen to the back and forth. >> revenues we're putting on the table are going to come from, guess who? the rich. there are ways to limit deductions, close loopholes and have the sameç people pay moref their money to the feder

serious about restoring confidence in the short and long term so our economy can grow and create jobs. i think the president has always been for a balanced approach come as alan and i have. our message to the president and the congress from day one has been the same -- that is the problem is real, the solutions are painful, and there is not going to be an easy way out of it. the only way to solve it will be a balanced plan with cutting spending and one without the other will not work. where do i think we are? i am really worried. i believe the probability is we are going over the cliff. i think that would be horrible. it would be devastating to the economy. it particularly bothers me, given the fact i believe this is the magic moment -- if we are ever going to get a deal done, now is the time to do it -- we have got a republican speaker who has been willing to put revenues on the table. we have republicans and democrats who have said we ought to have a balanced plan. most importantly, to get something done here in town, you have got to have a crisis. we have got one. we have got a real c

about the importance of preventing a tax increase on middle class families, strengthening our economy, and adopting a balanced approach to deficit reduction. and so it goes. my first guest says it does not matter who you tax or what form revenue takes him, taking more money at the private sector will hurt economic growth. joining us now, republican senator from the great state of kentucky from the senator rand paul. good to have you with us, senator. >> good evening. the president says we don't have enough time for tax reform or in thailand reeorm. you know my responses? we have been talking about this for two years. why haven't we done anything? i met with the president a year-and-a-half ago and i looke@ across the table in. i said in a we need to do something about social security. we need to do something to save medicare. they have done zero. how come there is no committee appear. d'agata washington. who is in charge of social security reform? nobody. everybody waits for a deadline and throws up their hands and says we don't have enough time. it is broken up here, but because they'

that will affect your spending, lifestyles or the economy in any significant way. >> yes, indeed. the president is standing confident standing firm on middle class tax cuts and against any effort by republicans to throw the debt ceiling into the equation. >> if congress in any way suggests that they're going to tieç negotiations to debt ceilg votes and take us to the brink of default once again, as part of a budget negotiation, i will not play that game. >> as the president perfects his steely gaze, keep in mistake he's keeping side eye on splintering cracks appearing amongst congressional republicans' supposedly solid front. >> personally u i know we are to raise revenue. i don't care which way we do it. i would rather see the rates go up than do it the other way. >> let's take the american people out of the line of fire. particularly that 98%. >> maybe there's something in the oklahoma water supply. if republican lawmakers are falling pray to the mendacious middle class those at fox news are standing up for the needs of those persecuted top earners. >> this is a different america. how did w

, people. i hope you're not either. coming up tomorrow, what was once a dark spot in the economy is becoming the shining star in the recovery. why the quick turn around? that's all for on the. thanks for joining us. have a great night. see you right back here tomorrow. ♪ lew: good evening, everybody. u.s. foreign policy in the middle east in question at this hour. violence spiring out of control in syria after 20 months of civil unrest and the deaths of at least 40,000 murdered civilians at the hands of their own government. united states and nato agreeing to deploy patriot weapons and to thwart an aso-called by assad. the missile systems to be positioned near the syria. his staff denies that and estimates if they were deploy troops, it requires 75,000 of the troops in a full ground invasion in order to seize the chemical weapon stockpile. fox news confirming they were not ordered to draft the consideration of such a mission. secretary of state clinton is nonetheless talking very tough calling for assad to step down as the obama administration has done for the past 15 months, b

, we had huge surpluses because of the strong economy over the 1990's and deficit-reduction plans put in place over the 1990's. the government had the choice to spend that on programs, or returned it to tax payers, and the bush administration decided to return the money to taxpayers. over the following year's tax rates were lower. it was renewed in 2010 in a tax deal between president obama and congressional republicans at a time when the economy was weak and the feeling was they could not take an increase in taxes. host: what was the desired effect and did it happen? he called the desired effect was to give people more of their income back, and that happened, as wealthy people got more income back, more moderate income earners got some back. one of the questions is how it effects economic growth, and it is an unresolved area of economic research. did it did help the economy -- did it help the economy? it is hard to say. we had a good economy in the 2000's before the crisis. now we have a huge crisis. on balance, it probably did not help that much. host: can you calculate if jobs were

to then quickly craft a legislative deal that can stop the damage to the economy that would occur if we went off the cliff and stayed off the cliff. john boehner recognizes that the fiscal cliff is the president's leverage, but boehner believes he has leverage, too. politico reported this morning president barack obama made a demand of how john boehner near the end of their first white house meeting on the fiscal cliff, raised the debt limit before year's end. boehner responded, quote, there is a price for everything. boehner told president obama at the white house that the debt limit increase is quote my leverage. although he added that he's flexible on when it should be done. senator durbin said today that raising the debt ceiling must be part of any deal with republicans. >> i also think that the president isn't going to sign off on any agreement that doesn't include some certainty as to budgets, appropriations, dealing with our debt ceiling. we're not going to find ourselves with some big party celebrating in february and then turn around and march and have another doomsday scenario with the

was spent on other forms of products and services in our economy, the return, the economic growth from that would be immensely higher, they talk about not making the money from a small amount of players. the new york times, reports that 80% of lottery money comes from lottery players. it is a predatory business, and it is a deception. >> there is one exception i would take to that. here is the facts, is that lotteries in states began to do lotteries because people have a desire. we do $68 million in lottery business in fiscal year 2012, more than the movie and music industry combined. we have nearly 70% of people playing the lottery at some point in time. if we didn't have state lotteries, the integrity is above reproach, but if we didn't have it. people would find ways to gain, they would do it illegally. the mafia, that was the problem, people took over, as you look at the future and things going on with that. that is important, integrity, and oversight, to make sure you don't over-promote things. >> a fascinating debate, thank you for joining us. we'll have to take a break, and back

know because the economy its say this, when you lower tax rates, revenue goes up because people are going to spend more money. >>neil: we are beyond that debate because now, i think they will go up but the issue is, how much, and whether republicans will lead. when you heard talks that the president was open to raising the top rate but maybe not as much as clinton, rather than 39.6 percent, 37 percent or 38 percent, what did you make of that? >>guest: the president knows he is not if a position of strength and the front page of the "wall street journal" --. >>neil: why? >>guest: well, winning the election does not mean he has a mandate to do as he pleases. >>neil: could you make the case that the election certified his view that taxes on the rich should be raised? he ran on that. >>guest: republicans were voted back in the house of representatives. >>neil: but, he could argue i got elected --. >>guest: what we have seen, the president is showing flexibility. the front page of the "wall street journal" said president obama is showing flexibility on not following through with his

on to conservative principles very closely. for example, the need for what they call a pro-growth economy, like senator ron johnson. let me play for you what he had to say. >> this president simply doesn't understand that and as a result he's going to punish success, put at risk the economic growth that we really need to create jobs, revenue that we need. >> this is sort of the talking point that we've been hearing all along. is there any indication around capitol hill that there is some softening on that? >> i don't even know what that means, putting -- basically, i believe that the argument is that only by decreasing taxes can you lead to growth. there is a lot of historical evidence that that is not necessarily the case. i think the issue for the gchop right now is whether the tax cuts expire for everyone or whether for only those with income over $250,000. >> let me bring in jim from the national journal. jim, we had a little technical problem there. let me ask you about what she said said. can anything be decided at all until a decision is made about who is going to have tax cuts expire if

are willing to make sure we don't go over this fiscal cliff but at the same time don't harm this economy. what has to happen here if the president shows a little leadership we are willing to stay in the room and stay here and we are willing to get this done. that's why you saw a proposal that is raoeubl reasonable that meets his criteria. >> reporter: steny hoyer said in the next few days we will see substantive movement in private to get this done. jenna: we'll continue to watch the play-by-play, mike, thank you. jon: right now we are continuing to await a speech by former president george w. bush, the speakers are taking to the podium there to get ready to introduce the former president. he is set to address a conference there in dallas, where he will spotlight the positive impact of immigration on u.s. economic growth. this as the g.o.p. looks to attract more hiss to the party. meantime mr. bush's father, former president george h.w. bush is spending another day in the hospital being treated for bronchitis and a lingering cough. we told you about that last week when we first found out that

over $250,000 paying a higher tax. they have confidence in this economy, perhaps the reason that your party saw success in the election. what do you make of this notion that, again, some republicans say the president doesn't get small business or economic growth somehow? >> well, i think the american people roundly rejected that. they think the president gets it. that's why they voted for the president. more than that, economists think the president gets it. this really is a balanced approach, and i don't think any credible economist will tell you we can simply cut our way out of the current deficits and debt. we need new revenues, and where should they come from? should they come from a middle class or working families that have really struggled or had setbacks in the last decade, or should it come from families that have done very well and can be asked to do more? if you look at the prosperity we enjoyed during the clinton administration when the tax rates were higher on upper income families, that certainly didn't kill economic growth. we have incredible economic growth during the

have to put the changes that happened well down the road because the economy's not ready to handle a lot of these changes in terms of cuts and things like that. but the idea that it feels like they're not going to do anything. you could wand ind up with the situation, let it all ride. we won't deal with any of it right now. >> republicans have had a good pint that tax increases are immediate and spending cuts are put off. >> when is a good time? they're talking about another four or five years of we're not going to be ready to have any type of austerity because it's still this huge debt overhang. what color is that tie? >> i don't know. red, i think. >> is it a red rutgers tie? >> not intentional. i completely forgot about the game. not having paid attention to the most important sports event of the year. >> they lost. but they played well. >> they showed up. i didn't see it, but i was happy they showed up. i have my rise above button back on because i thought i was going to have a rutgers button so which would not have allowed me to -- but now i had room for this. you got no sleep

is to grow the economy and cut spending. you won't grow the economy if you put tax rates on the top two rates. >> there was no serious discussion by the white house on entitlements on medicare and medicaid. this has to be a part of this agreement. >> reporter: the white house is going all out on this campaign tactical front, even deploying twitter, using the hash tag, to learn how they would save. >>> and chuck todd on the white house lawn, starting us off. a big aspect of this again is medicare, 50 million americans get their health insurance through medicare. that number is growing quickly as the baby boom number gets older. polls show americans don't want big change to it, but big change could come. nbc's tom costello has more on what it may look like. >> reporter: it is one of the most popular government programs, but medicare now accounts for more than 13% of federal spending, and expected to grow at what many analysts call an unsustainable rate. so among the many options congress could consider to cut costs, slowly raise the eligibility age, and it would affect mr. and mrs. green, who l

and the economy. we agree with that. but if your number one priority is jobs and the economy, you don't grow the economy and create jobs by raising taxes on small businesses, the very people who create those jobs. >> greta: white house press secretary today jay carney when asked when the next meeting with congressional members would be, the answer was, quote, it would come at the appropriate time. >> nobody knows what that means. >> greta: that's my point. look, all of you have had a vacation, campaigning, doing that for the last three months. you've been about this fiscal cliff for a year and a half. now the president is going out to do, as you say, campaigning. the press secretary says there will be a meeting between leaders at the appropriate time. the appropriate time seems like pretty much right now. >> well, it is. what you're seeing by the president and democrats is an attempt to run out the clock. i think they think they gain leverage if the pressure builds toward the end of the year. frankly you're hearing a lot of prominent democrats saying we should go over the fiscal cliff and le

for the economies in our states, as you're thinking about other changes, whether it's in the tax code or whether it's in cuts, if states are affected, we ought to have a seat at the table. that was really our message to all three. we said at the outset we're not embracing one plan or the other. i believe that they clearly want to get it done and we're hopeful that they will. it's important that they get it done soon. >> right. governor herbert, they've got to get it done because if they don't get it done, then it's going to rebound badly on your party more than the democrats because all the polls say that two-thirds of americans would blame the republicans for not getting this done, which may or may not be fair, but that's politics and that's reality. now, the sticking point on your side seems to be look, we don't want to have a plan that we sign up to that means 2% of the wealthiest americans have to pay more tax and certainly not without the kind of spending cuts we're looking for. but america doesn't agree with that, either. america, two-thirds of all people polled say they're quite happy for th

revenue. >> the economy is in a different position, the president actually did sign into law a series of cuts, he's proposed a lot in his 2013 budget. it's not like he's been stagnant. we've been having this argument throughout the presidential campaign and guess what? as we keep saying, americans said we're not buying it. the conditions have changed, the economy has changed, i think the outlook in the picture has changed. that's part of the reason the president is so firm about not going back to the debt ceiling conversation again and creating that level of instability and not bending on this issue of raisings the rates on the top 2%. >> yeah. i think -- >> go ahead. >> it's an important point. i think the american people are seeing that the president has already agreed to more than a year ago to that $1 trillion of cuts. that was 100% in cuts as part of the budget control act and he's always said we need a balanced approach. we can't do it through cuts alone. he has proposed additional cuts as part of the process but you need to have that revenue component to have the balanced appro

are the impediments to that? we have an economy that aren't creating enough of those middle-class jobs and we don't have enough people with skills to do those jobs and there are a lot of people that fall into those categories. access to education and the impediments i faced in my own life to education and how impossible it would have been for us to go to college if there weren't pell grants and student loans. it's the social realities and social changes that have occurred. you can't separate economic well-being from their social well-being. there are many young kids in america that are growing up in difficult circumstances raised by heroic parent, a grandmother in substandard housing, poor nutrition and schools that are failing. those kids are going to struggle. they don't go to after-school activities because the paints can't afford the fees. can you succeed? there are parents out there doing amazing things and will be the first ones to tell you, it is hard, but we can't be the country we need to be if we don't address that. government can have a role but civil society has a bigger role and we s

just return to a normal economy like we had in 2007, those policies of george bush where we had 18.5% of our economy coming to the federal government as revenue, that would be another $419 billion. so combined, that would be $750 billion per year of additional revenue. now, president obama's proposal of punishing success, it's hard to say exactly what it will be, but somewhere around $75 billion. it's a tenth of what we get with economic growth. and the rob with punishing success, with increasing marginal tax rates or really increasing taxes, is you put at risk that growth that is ten times more effective. so again, i'm just looking at what works. and we need to calm the markets. i don't want to play brinksmanship. it's a unfortunate that the president really isn't negotiating in good faith. he's just moving the goal posts. >> although the lead story on the "wall street journal" is about how the president may be relaxing that position. he may not insist on returning to the pre-bush tax cut rates for those wealthiest 2% or whatever the situation is. that may not mean that he's not l

low. that's what our economy needs. that's what the american people deserve. >> bill: you'll see some photos of this event yesterday at the white house up on our web site at billpressshow.com. again, the president pointed out it's passed the senate. get it through the house. he's got his pen ready to go. >> obama: democrats in the house are ready to vote for that same bill today. if we can get a few house republicans to agree as well, i'll sign this bill as soon as congress sends it my way. i gotta repeat, i've got a pen. i'm ready to sign it. >> bill: he held up his pen. i've got a pen. he says a few house republicans that's right, you don't need that many but you need to bring it up for a vote. boehner won't do it. why won't boehner do it because boehner says that still says -- he's just dead ass wrong he still says that raising taxes on the wealthiest of americans on the 2% would cost -- would kill jobs and kill the economy and we know from the eight years under bill clinton proven just the opposite. in the

the election, his number-1 priority will be jobs and the economy. we agree with that. but your number-1 priority is jobs and the economy you don't grow the economy to create jobs by raising taxes on small businesses, the people who create the jobs. >> white house press secretary today, jay carney said when he was asked when the next meeting would be, the answer was, it would come, quote at the appropriate time. >> well, nobody know what is that means -- >> no! that's my point. is that -- is that, you know -- look, all of have you had a vacation, i refer, to while you are campaigning the last 3 months. have you known about this fiscal cliff for a year and-a-half. now the president's going out, friday, to do, as you say, campaigning. the press secretary says there will be a meeting between the leaders at the appropriate time. that seems like it's right now. >> it does. to me, what you are seeing with the president and the democrats, is sort of an attempt to run out the clock. i think they think they gain leverage if the pressure builds. you are hearing a lot of prominent democrats saying,

, in order to protect small businesses and our economy. instead, new revenue would be generated through progrowth tax reform that closes special interest loopholes and deduksz while lowering rates. i'm going to guess that is the very line that the white house is going to say no deal to, right? >> so let me understand. if, in fact, we want $800 billion in new revenues, and we can do that through closing loopholes, limiting deductions for the wealthy in this country, and we're going to not have a deal because it's not a rate increase, but rather taking the same amount of money from the same people and we're going to say no to that? >> well, there are people who said, the math doesn't work out. closing the loopholes doesn't get you enough money. >> soledad, i've been studying this for seven years. that's bologna. there's -- it's easy to get $800 billion out of the wealthy in this country by limiting deductions and taking away options that are specifically benefiting only the well off in this country. >> case, but -- >> all you have to do is -- for example, people making more than $250,000

a trillion dollars next year, there is more and more money on the sidelines in this economy. which means there are even more jobs that won't get created. that means economic growth will even decrease more. so, the president's got to wake up an realize he owns this economy. it is not in his political benefit to do this brinkmanship. jon: debbie, my understanding that the most to everybody agrees that the big drivers of government spending are entitlement programs like social security and medicare and medicaid. why not talk about reducing the expenditures there somehow? >> i want to say several things. one of the things got to do stop taking cheap shots. the secretary of treasury is one of the most serious people in this government. has the trust of the president and that is who the president is sending in here. let's stop taking these cheap shots. that is the kind of stuff we have to stop doing. you are right, this uncertainty is hurting the economy and putting money on the sideline, why we have to solve it. we need to walk into a room and put everything on the table. social security and

care? >> well, we should care because the tax on capital has a major impact on the economy overall, on productivity growth and, therefore, on standards of living. the way that you have a more prosperous economy, is you need to have incentive to encourage capital formation, to encourage investment, to increase worker productivity -- megyn: what are people going to do with their money? so if i had otherwise invested in stocks and gotten dividends, but now -- because i like getting 15% taxes as opposed to, you know, 40% taxes on them -- what am i going to do with my money now instead of invest it in stocks? >> well, on the margin a lot of people will choose consumption. if you can spend your money and enjoy it today versus having more in the future, anytime you reduce the return on investment, you give people more of an incentive to say, the heck with it -- megyn: well, isn't that good for the economy, consumption? >> well, i don't think so. we've got a real problem with declining business investment, and if you don't have expansion on the supply side, it's hard to have the productivi

. martha: he argues the economy is ready to take off if people would just stop playing the blame game. bill: one of the changes that may be coming is the reduction in the mortgage interest rate duck you can claim. but according to the i.r.s. only a small percentage of americans claim it after all. all. 37% in maryland and 15% in north dakota. 73 per of americans are opposed to changing that. martha: the owner of popular restaurant chains claims complaints about obama-care have been hurting the company's bottom line. the head of darden says part of the blame is the negative coverage on the company's position on obama-care. we are just beginning on this wednesday morning. dock workers getting back on the job after a crippling 8-day strike at the port of los angeles and long beach. we'll look at the toll that the work stoppage has taken on the u.s. economy. bill: a questionable cartoon featuring the rich stealing from the middle class. martha: two rising stars in the republican party laid out their vision for the future last night and for their party. >> we need to carry on and keep fighting f

a downturn in the economy in january, then the republicans are going to say, see, we told you, even though they created the problem. >> david cay johnson, great to have you with us. that's "the ed show." "the rachel maddow show" starts right now. good evening, rachel. >> good evening, ed. thanks, man. thank you for staying with us for this hour. the acting director of the cia met for more than an hour with senators john mccain and lindsey graham along with the u.n. ambassador susan rice. the three senators emerged from the meeting saying they were honored by the fact that the cia director would meet with them, just three random senators and not in some official capacity testifying before committee on the hill. they appreciated the fact that the administration and the intelligence community was going to such lengths to e swaj their concerns to personally answer their questions about the libya attack in a closed-door meeting with the cia director himself, even though these are just three random senators. the senators said their questions were answered as reasonably could be expected a

're going to talk about the fiscal cliff, we're going to talk about the global economy. we're going to talk about the civil war in syria. we'll talk about the royal baby coming soon. first we want to get right to zoraida sambolin for an update on the day's top stories. >> soledad, the fiscal cliff debacle, with 28 days remaining before drastic tax hikes and spending cuts take effect, a republican spending plan has been rejected by the white house. brianna keilar is live from washington. what now, brianna? >> well, right now it's about the pressure building and the clock kicking, zoraida. as house republicans in the white house try to ultimately broker a deal between two very different plans. house speaker john boehner's counteroffer, if you take a look at the headlines from this $800 billion in what would be savings from tax reform. so that is new tax revenue. but not done by increasing income tax rate on the wealthiest. but instead by closing tax loopholes, eliminating tax credits. and also $600 billion in health savings. that's what you'd get from entitlement reform. from reforming medica

or programming computers or designing aircraft, we have needs across all sectors of our economy. not -- yes, in stem, but not just in stem. so we are asked to choose. asked to choose between people with graduate degree who we want to keep here in science, technology, engineering, and math. in many cases, if they're not allowed to stay, they will have to return to other countries and the jobs will follow them, costing our country jobs. choose between them and allowing people here from countries other than mexico, india, and china. some of whom are high skilled, some of whom are low skilled, divorce group across the board and looking back at many of our own forebears, certainly mine mitigating circumstance family came to this country in the late 19th century and early 20th century, 1890's, 1905. they didn't have master's degrees they zrntpampede's they didn't have college degrees. and that's the case for many of our forebears. and here today their great grandson sits as a member of congress. and had a program then existed whereby they could arrive nellliss island and be here, i wouldn't be he

where substantively republicans believe in things and think certain things are better for the economy and the country, they will be in a weaker position to achieve any of those things. but they have to take into the consideration the idea that everybody's taxes will go up january 1st if there is no deal. it is not going to be all on the president's shoulders. in fact most of might be on theirs temporarily and for good. they have to decide what is the better position. and you know, will the president and the democrats offer them something that they really should take, significant spending cuts? some kind of significant entitlement reform? those are kind of things republicans have been after for a long time. even though there would be grumbling about tax increases on certain income level, that is something they could take home and really savor. this depends where it goes, the brinkmanship continues. david drucker from "roll call." thank you. >> thanks a lot. jenna: well now we turnover seas where we have some new information today on what some say could really be a turning point in the

. if you believe that? >> it's hard to imagine that the president would want to send the economy into another recession. that would be a terrible start to his second term and it would cripple the rest of the spectrum. everything else that he would want to do. it would seem a bit suicidal to do that. that being said, there is a scenario where he thinks that he might be able to quickly turn around and get tax cuts back in place. it depends on how much you think going over the fiscal cliff will affect the economy. others say it will be devastating and others say it will be back. it depends on where you stand when you are making these sort of analyses. megyn: it feels like we are left with the economy -- with people's livelihoods and growth in the country and salaries and unemployment benefits. we are just left. both sides are accusing the other of being the untethered risk taker. last night speaker boehner made remarks demanding leadership on the president. here he is. >> this is not a game. jobs are on the line. the american economy is on the line. this is a moment for adults leade

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